Jun 27, 2009

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26 comments:

becca said...

>>I mean, she is editor of a press that is small, right?

Ha!

Thanks for posting this, and for your noble attempt to parse the illogical, immature nonsense that is Laity's original post.

I find what you say in the disclaimer really important, too -- it's easy to roll one's eyes and stay silent, but much harder to speak up against slander and cruelty, especially at the risk of self-ostracism.

I think it's safe to say, though, that you do NOT want to be a part of the "Chicago Poetry" world as perceived by CJ Laity! :)

chicagopoetry said...

Oh, blah, blah, blah already. The bottom line is that Kristy Bowen is using the fact that she is a young overweight woman to steal from and to do really mean things to another person in her community (namesly me). She thinks that just because she is a young overweight woman she can steal from an older man and that older man will be afraid to criticize her for it for this very reason, that some other younger woman will accuse him of being everything including the kitchen sink. Kristy Bowen and her friends have no problem making fun of my alcoholism or insinuating that I have mental problems, but calling attention to the fact that she is overweight is out of line, huh? Just stop it, hypocrites!!

The bottom line is Kristy Bowen is stealing the domain name ChicagoPoetry and is tricking people with her anymous site in order to steal the audience I have worked for ten years to develop. There are infinite names that she can call her site that wouldn't infringe upon my domain name, yet she purposely uses my domain name and not only that, signs others who have stolen from me in the past up as members. What she is doing is intentional and is no accident. And it hurts, because I've supported Bowen for years before she apparently aligned herself with the rest of the creeps that are always badmouthing me. She gives her press a bad name by stealing from me. She gives the poets published by her press a bad name. And she's not immune to criticism just because she happens to be an overweight young woman. She should show others respect if she wants respect in return.

Kathleen said...

Laity:
You're a dick.

Not very poetic, perhaps, but appropriate.

chicagopoetry said...

Yes, I am a DICK. When I'm a nice guy and ask nicely I get crapped on and ignored. But suddenly when I do something out of line, ooooh, everyone has something to say about it, don't they. You guys create the stage we're on. If I didn't want you to support Bowen I wouldn't be linking to her on every one of my websites. How would you feel if I set up Switchback Calendar or Bloody Ice Cream Calendar? Would you just say, okay, I've worked to establish that domain, but it's okay, CJ can have it. Hell no you wouldn't. So practice what you preach. And if Bowen gave a wit about grammar or spelling she wouldn't be linking to the Chicago Poetry Examiner, would she. Double standards all the way with you guys.

Kathleen said...

Maybe you're open to some constructive criticism.

Your domain may be the original, but I'll visit hers over yours every time. Why? Yours is nearly impossible to read. The antithesis of poetry in motion. Worry about being the first, or work on being the best.

chicagopoetry said...

Kathleen, I don't care which site you go to, as long as Kristy Bowen stops stealing my domain name. Unless, of course, you don't mind if I put up a "Live Nude Girl Calendar" (you are that Kathleen, aren't you?)

Kathleen said...

Different Kathleen.

A Live Nude Girl Calendar, now we're talking!

chicagopoetry said...

Yes, except now imagine Live Nude Girl Calendar was set up anonymously by someone who obviously does not like you and then other people who have insulted you in the past sign up as members and then they pretty much just copy your production and claim it as their own. Perhpas you might wait a year or so to see if they get tired of the nonsense. Perhaps finally you might have had enough and you might out of frustration say something out of line. That's the position I'm in. I know you think it's a joke, but if that really, really did happen to you, you wouldn't think it was so funny.

becca said...

Ummm, except "Live Nude Girl: My Life as an Object" is actually copyright Kathleen Rooney 2009.

Whereas the concept "Chicago Poetry" belongs to everybody -- if they haven't been scared off yet.

Anyway, this is beside the point -- stop trying to bring women's bodies back into it.

amy said...

CJ, your proprietariness is the antithesis of poetry. Poets simply aren't buying it. And certainly you don't think there is anything unique about the name "Chicago Poetry"?

I posted the following on Daniela's blog, but twice can't hurt anymore than the misogynistic spirit CJ's promoting here (and annihilating his own argument with):

Huh? How does anyone "own" chicago poetry? That's like saying someone owns atlanta poetry or new york poetry or new york fiction or chicago fiction or new york politics or chicago art or, MOREOVER, the right to say nasty things without expecting to be held accountable. How did you get to be so proprietary anyway? Shouldn't we applaud any and everyone who attempts to disseminate and promote poetry in its various mediums? You know, get the word out? Whatever your answer, know that:

Bashing anyone's appearance is such a debased way of getting your point across, CJ, that I can't even find an actual, legitimate argument due to the glaring hate speech you're putting forth. You want sympathy? Try making a constructive argument for your case instead of mucking it all up with hate. HATE. Your hate has overshadowed any legitimacy you could have established.

I may have listened openly to your points initially, but now I'm totally biased: I immediately don't like you for resorting to such hateful tactics and cannot truly be open to your position now. It's the same as being a racist or a homophobe. You really don't get it?

You perceive that someone was not nice to you in the past? You think being not nice back works? Only if you're twelve and haven't learned that throwing rocks just doesn't get your way.

Good luck with your hate campaign. You're not getting any sympathizers with this kind of attack.

Uh oh , the new "bottom line" --Look, I'm "stealing your audience of ten years":

ChicagoPoetry
ChicagoPoetry
ChicagoPoetry
Poetry Readings in Chicago
Poems Chicago
Chicago Poets
Chicago Poetry
Chicago Poetry

ad nauseum...

chicagopoetry said...

You can make a million arguments about copyright or blah blah blah. We all know it is unethical to steal someone else's domain. Look at how Kurt Heintz is crying because I took e-poets.net in response to his support of Bowen's thievery. Becca, it is immoral of you to support someone else's thievery, no matter how you want to rationalize it. Besides, you can't "copyright" a TITLE, in case you didn't know, so maby I WILL put up LiveNudeGirls.net or some crap just to make my point. Then you'll all cry like hypocrites what a bully I am as you support your firend who is doing the exact same thing. Grow up and stop stealing from people.

Matt said...

CJ, for the last time, a URL cannot be "stolen". Jesus Christ.

Two websites with the same URL CANNOT exist on the internet at the same time!

If you think it's possible for someone else to start a new site by "stealing" a pre-existing domain name, you are clearly delusional.

chicagopoetry said...

Matt, tell that to Kurt Heintz, who is clearly in an uproar over my registration of e-poets.org. It's about what is ethical, dude. Apparently you have no concept of ethics. No, of course I don't own the concept of Chicago Poetry, but I've run ChicagoPoetry.com for ten years, so setting up a phony version of it is simply unethical. It's stealing. Why Kristy, of all people, who is published an an award winning poet, needs to steal from me to get attention, is beyond me.

John said...

Kurt Heintz, one of the kinder people I've met in Chicago, is probably feeling blindsided by being dragged into this egomaniacal tirade. Kristy Bowen is probably feeling the same or worse because of the very personal attack.

You don't hear ACM crying about AREA using the phrase "Another Chicago" and that is slightly less generic than "Chicago Poetry." Who cares? The audiences of each publication are going to find what they are after.

To attack someone personally like CJ has done in a very public manner just makes him look like an asshole. I don't know him, but his tenacity in being an asshole, seems to prove in a very public way that he is in fact both a creep and a misogynist. He has proven that once his foot is firmly in his mouth, he then tries to sit down and insert the other one. Well done CJ. I didn't know you but now I'm thoroughly disgusted by you.

Running a calendar, doesn't make you a poet, or even interesting. Your site is perhaps a public service, but now it just seems like a rather sad attempt to call one of your own projects "World Famous" while you stomp around the room asking for attention. You want superficial insults: Was your website designed in 1995? Looks like it.

Showing yourself to be a sexist ass by attacking the way someone looks is degrading to others, but in this very public forum, it is most degrading to yourself.

chicagopoetry said...

John, you have absolutely proven my point and you have supplied the "evidence" Becca was looking for. There is nothing "sexist" in anything I've written. It could very well have been writing about Ray Bianchi. What does Kristy's sex have to do with it, other than the fact that she is using her sex to steal from a man, knowing that if I protest I will be called sexist. John, I couldn't care less what you think about my website. I've been publishing that website for ten years and it was published for ten years before that as a print publication, and I have a die hard audience that has stuck with me through much more than this. My audience doesn't consist of just my close friends, they are scattered all over the world. I don't expect to win your approval and I don't want your approbal. All I want is to be able to do my work without Kristy Bowen stealing from me all the time. She even once took some of my opinions off ChicagoPoetry.com and pasted them verbatum onto her site to trick people into thinking her site had something to do with me. And she also lists wrong information at her site, which confuses the scene. She's not publishing that site to help anyone; she's publishing that site to steal from me, period. If she really cared, she wouldn't cause these problems. AREA and ACM? How about if someone set up a Dancing Girl website and then proceeded to try to establish it as a legitimate feminist run Chicago small press? Would that be okay in your book? Stop being hypocritical. Stop with the double standards. If you really care about Kristy, stop being outraged by a stupid weight comment and give her some good advice: use her own domain name instead of mine.

John said...

CJ, this isn't about a simple syllogism. Bringing up a woman's body, when the situation has nothing to do with a woman's body, plays into a history of men objectifying and sexualizing women.

Yours is a profoundly sexist move. What does her body have to do with a website? Nothing. But you insisted on going there, getting personal, and in your lame grab for attention and power, you lash out at her body. This is as pitiful as it is reprehensible.

I'm done with this dialogue. If you don't want to apologize (and you should stop bloviating already and apologize), then the mud will remain on your face on this matter (because your original statement will live online to speak for itself in all its glorious whiny stupidity).

You are clearly contributing to a history of timid, sad men attacking the bodies of women, instead of thinking their actions through and being a decent courteous person. It's your move to make, but don't expect others (especially within a community) to sit back and let you get away with it without calling you out for being a whimpering jerk.

Perhaps, you are too myopic to realize this basic reading of your comment. Perhaps some self examination is in order, and then an apology. But perhaps you just enjoy your gazing at your reflection too much. Until you apologize, I for one will never again acknowledge your existence, for fear of further encouraging your boring self-aggrandizing project.

chicagopoetry said...

Apologize? Are you kidding? Kristy Bowen needs to stop stealing from me. She is using the fact that she is an overweight young woman to steal from me because she knows that this will happen, if I bring it up all her friends will come to her rescue and call me a sexists. If anything, I am treating her EQUALLY because I'm dealing with her the way I would deal with any man who steals from me. So call me all the names you want, someone even brought my mother into it, and apparently that is okay, but stating a simple fact of truth, that Kristy Bowen is overweight, is the end of the world with you guys. HYPOCRITES!!!!

amy said...

CJ,

The sad fact that continues to rise to the surface here and out you for the MISOGYNIST that you are is that you keep citing a woman's appearance in a matter that has NOTHING TO DO WITH THE SITUATION.

Screaming over and over that she did this and she did that and she is overweight simply outs you for the woman hating prick that you certainly are and continue to prove, tirelessly, over and over. Saying it isn't so, over and over, and then referring to this woman's body over and over is just blatant hypocrisy, and certainly doesn't make you a victim.

But keep screaming. Keep pimping yourself as the victim. No one will hear since your arguments continue to drown in your woman-hating rhetoric.

Here, let me do it for you, though you'll be at the reply in one second because you seem to think being dogmatic in your woman-hating is somehow effective: "Boo hoo, Chicago Poetry was mine! She stole it! Boo hoo! Boooooooo hoooooo! They did this, they did that, I am me, I made Chicago Poetry what it is today, ten years at it, boooooo hoooooo! It's all gone overnight! Booo hooooooooo! Sniffle."

You're still a WOMAN HATING ASS who deserves every little bit of fallout you get. As you'll see, the only ones who will support you will be other insecure woman-haters -- and they'll only take the opportunity to bash women's bodies as you have. Your "cause" is a thin farce that you've used to mock this woman's appearance, and you're gonna get karmic hell for it.

And now we're off to make Kristy and her friends' calendar rise to the top off all searches on the internet -- you've done yourself in, dude. Your "campaign" has backfired, and we're going to make sure your site really does lose it's "premier" and "exclusive" status as *the* chicago poetry calendar.

Oh god. Oh no. How will you ever carry on? Your identity as a poetry calendar is truly threatened! Who will you become? A real person might be an option to consider....

chicagopoetry said...

Amy, blah blah blah, just stop stealing from me. It's as simple as that. The fact is I'm about thirty pounds overweight myself, all of it in my belly, so me calling Kristy fat is like a black man using the n-word. Silly.

chicagopoetry said...

And now I will delete the offending post at chicagopoetry.org. I do this for Jenny Boully, KateDurbin, Becca Klaver, and Daniela Olszewska, who showed great maturity in letting me post my opinions uncensored. They could have deleted my posts or not allowed me to post, but they didn't. Even though they disagree with me, they allowed me my basic freedom of speech. That showed maturity. So in return, I will also act mature.

And, yes, I apologize to Kristy Bowen and to all women. Peace out.

chicagopoetry said...

Okay, a lot of people are asking you guys to please spread the word that Printers Ball is off limits. There is a lot of hostility going on right now, and the Ball is worried someone might act it out during their event. You have my word I plan on being completely respectful to everyone at the Printers Ball. We hope that you will also remain civil and that you will spread the word to those who you know who might have been incited by all of this, that the Printers Ball is not the time nor place for confrontation. I am sincere when I say "please" for all our sakes.

Nashmil said...

Dear Jenny! Hi! Long time no news!!! How have you been? Did you get the Persian version of "the body"?

Nashmil said...

Dear Jenny! Hope you are doing well. Please send your emails to "poorooshka@yahoo.com' Thanks and don't forget to write.

Jill said...

I am a poet published by Kristy Bowen's press and I don't think I have a bad name. And I'm very far from Chicago!

Skrimshaw Hack said...

Cj Laity is the most petty, divisive and stupid person I've ever had the displeasure to come across. I feel quite sorry for him in a way.

Anonymous said...

This guy CJ slandered me on FB so this is his modus operandi. He is NO poet.